Where should a WJR be on all-time list when set ?

[wineturtle]

Now that that is settled .. looking at my numbers what say the collective brain of T&FN posters.

Jr Records should be at least:
9.91
19.91
44.15*
1:43.00
3:29.77
3:49.90

So the 400 record of 43.87 is the only one that is not soft.

[Strunk]

Of the 5,800,000 hits that google provides for the phrase, try this site, with my reference being drawn from poker-playing experience

http://www.answers.com/down-and-dirty&r=67

ahem... 7,200,000 hits for "down and dirty"

http://tinyurl.com/l87hk

[stallion]

Perhaps several posters, including the moderator, have been inspired by a legendary poster (no, not that one I had of Loni Anderson as a child), but a poster who has finally leaked out his secret. No, it's not PEDs, advanced technology, skin color, or even genetics. Texas wrote: "The trick to this 'message board' world is to make a difference. To be just another poster is boring. I've accomplished what I wanted to, which is what really matters. To be lost in the crowd.....nay!"
When I first read this treasure of wisdom, it suddenly called to mind, a la Proust, old Blue Eyes belting it out:
"And now, the end is near; (Texas, please don't retire yet)
And so I face the final curtain.
My friend, I'll say it clear, (well, sort of)
I'll state my case, of which I'm certain (I know I'm right)
I've lived a life that's full (I saw those races at Fresno)
I've traveled each and every highway; (I remember seeing.....)
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.
Regrets, I've had a few; (I wish I could see Hayes vs Owens,Lewis, Gatlin)
But then again, too few to mention; (because I'm always right)
I did what I had to do
And I saw it through without exemption.
I planned each charted course; (and each controversial thread)
Each careful step along the byway,
But more, much more than this,
I did it my way.
Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew (arguing with those T&FN geniuses)
But through it all, when there was doubt, (almost never)
I ate it up and spit it out (those other posters)
I faced it all and I stood tall
And did it my way
I've loved, I've laughed and cried (Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!)
I've had my fill, my share of losing. (well, no lost arguments)
And now, as tears subside,
I find it all so amusing (Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!)
To think, I did all that;
And may I say, not in a shy way (sometimes even a brutal way)
Oh no, not me,
I did it my way.
For what is a man, what has he got? (besides them ole blues, track, rassling)
If not himself, then he has naught.
To say the things he truly feels; (to educate those idiots)
And not the words of one who kneels.
The record shows, I took the blows, (maybe even a few low ones)
And did it my way! (Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!)

Texas, you are inspiring other posters to make a difference, and not be boring! Like a ripple in a pond, your influence is unending.

[SQUACKEE]

Tafny alert!

[tafnut]

Tafny alert!

Clearly.

Stallion, for a guy who posted ONCE in 2004, FOUR times in 2005, and 122 so far this year, seems to have been paying pretty close attention for someone who was slow to warm to the task! Reminds me of another guy . . . into song lyricks . . . haven't seen in a while . . . nah - couldn't be! :-)

[Pego]

Tafny alert!

Clearly.

Stallion, for a guy who posted ONCE in 2004, FOUR times in 2005, and 122 so far this year, seems to have been paying pretty close attention for someone who was slow to warm to the task! Reminds me of another guy . . . into song lyricks . . . haven't seen in a while . . . nah - couldn't be! :-)

Got to be.
Welcome back!

[gh]

Of the 5,800,000 hits that google provides for the phrase, try this site, with my reference being drawn from poker-playing experience

http://www.answers.com/down-and-dirty&r=67

ahem... 7,200,000 hits for "down and dirty"

http://tinyurl.com/l87hk

Fortunately, that window still open on my machine, from which I cut and paste:

<<Results 1 - 10 of about 5,800,000 for "down and dirty". (0.47 seconds) >>

[eldrick]

powell made the correct suggestion that the position of wjr shoud be in respect to all-time performers list rather than performances

so, i'll throw out a tentative 55th position on all-time performers list & see how that pans out...

[Strunk]

Of the 5,800,000 hits that google provides for the phrase, try this site, with my reference being drawn from poker-playing experience

http://www.answers.com/down-and-dirty&r=67

ahem... 7,200,000 hits for "down and dirty"

http://tinyurl.com/l87hk

Fortunately, that window still open on my machine, from which I cut and paste:

<<Results 1 - 10 of about 5,800,000 for "down and dirty". (0.47 seconds) >>

Dude, you need to get yourself a new Dell!

Results 1 - 10 of about 7,200,000 for "down and dirty" [definition]. (0.13 seconds)

Mine's bigger....

[wineturtle]

9.97=38th alltime.........10.00=55.........10.01=61st
19.93=23rd"...................20.08=.............20.10
43.87=6...........................44.55=.............44.57

[MJD]

Of the 5,800,000 hits that google provides for the phrase, try this site, with my reference being drawn from poker-playing experience

http://www.answers.com/down-and-dirty&r=67

ahem... 7,200,000 hits for "down and dirty"

http://tinyurl.com/l87hk

Fortunately, that window still open on my machine, from which I cut and paste:

<<Results 1 - 10 of about 5,800,000 for "down and dirty". (0.47 seconds) >>

Dude, you need to get yourself a new Dell!

Results 1 - 10 of about 7,200,000 for "down and dirty" [definition]. (0.13 seconds)

Mine's bigger....

Interesting. I have a piece of junk at home which I don't use much and got 5,740,000 hits. Just got 7.040,000 on my better work computer.

[tafnut]

Interesting. I have a piece of junk at home which I don't use much and got 5,740,000 hits. Just got 7.040,000 on my better work computer.

on school computer just now

Results 1 - 10 of about 5,660,000 for "down and dirty" [definition]. (0.21 seconds)

I thought all google searches were created equal!

[Jon]

7,460,000 for me.

God, this is sad.

[wineturtle]

Results 1 - 30 of about 103,000,000 for down and dirty, [definition]. (0.64 seconds)
Results 1 - 30 of about 7,360,000 for "down and dirty",. (0.88 seconds)
Results 1 - 30 of about 143,000 for "down and dirty",definition. (0.87 seconds)
Results 1 - 30 of about 202,000 for "down and dirty",define,. (0.80 seconds)
Results 1 - 30 of about 28,200 for " getting down and dirty",define,. (0.56 seconds)
Results 1 - 1 of 1 for " give it to you down and dirty",. (0.36 seconds)

[Powell]

5,510,000 with www.google.pl
5,550,000 with www.google.com

[RJMB_1]

Results 1 - 10 of about 7,490,000 for "down and dirty" [definition]. (0.43 seconds)

Google.co.uk / dial-up

[dakota]

I thought all google searches were created equal!

Is your preference for google to use safesearch filtering, or do you prefer to get down and dirty?

[tafnut]

Is your preference for google to use safesearch filtering, or do you prefer to get down and dirty?

I'm all about getting downest and dirtiest, but I mustn't actually get 'down' OR 'dirty'.

[bad hammy]

Apparently Google is the downest and dirtiest:

Google: Results 1 - 100 of about 5,300,000 for "down and dirty"
Yahoo: 1 - 10 of about 3,740,000 for "down and dirty"
Ask: Showing results 1-10 of 313,700
MSN: Page 1 of 915,542 results containing "down and dirty"

The other three may have had filtering active. I do not use them and do not know one way or the other. Google had filtering off.

[wineturtle]

Results 1 - 30 of about 103,000,000 for down and dirty, [definition]. (0.64 seconds) *
Results 1 - 30 of about 7,360,000 for "down and dirty",. (0.88 seconds)
Results 1 - 30 of about 143,000 for "down and dirty",definition. (0.87 seconds)
Results 1 - 30 of about 202,000 for "down and dirty",define,. (0.80 seconds)
Results 1 - 30 of about 28,200 for " getting down and dirty",define,. (0.56 seconds)
Results 1 - 1 of 1 for " give it to you down and dirty",. (0.36 seconds)

103 MILLION Google dial-up safe search off*

Let's try again:
9.97=38th alltime.........10.00=55.........10.01=61st
19.93=23rd"...................20.08=.............20.10
43.87=6...........................44.55=.............44.57

[eldrick]

9.97=38th alltime.........10.00=55.........10.01=61st
19.93=23rd"...................20.08=.............20.10
43.87=6...........................44.55=.............44.57

many thanks

i suppose 55th position doesn't look bad ( but just the same coud be said for 60th, 70th...100th position ? )

10.00 - looks reasonable ( darrell's wjr is 10.02 ( but easing down ))

20.08 - again looks fair - we know bolt's 19.93 is exceptional & far better than most woud expect from a junior - next best jr time is 20.07 by lorenzo daniel ( which for some reason was never ratified )

44.55 - looks fair : remember, like bolt, 43.87 is incredible, ar better than coud ever be expected from a junior - so what is the next best ever run by a jr ?

that's 44.66 by hamdan bishi & lashawn & what you'd expect a "human" to run, not a 43.87 superman

maybe, for "normal" calibre wjr, somewhere between 45 - 65 on all-time performers list at time of setting is a fair position ( it's more useful in identifying "weak" records rather than saying anything about exceptional ones like 19.93, 43.87 , 1'42.69... )

i'll have to look up lashinda's position with her 54.70 a few years back

[gh]

This proves absolutely nothing. All events simply aren't created equal, and one-number-fits-all just doesn't cut it. Olympic history is full of teenaged sprinters who did well, but find me all the weight throwers. Some events take time to grow into, period.

[tafnut]

This proves absolutely nothing. All events simply aren't created equal, and one-number-fits-all just doesn't cut it. Olympic history is full of teenaged sprinters who did well, but find me all the weight throwers. Some events take time to grow into, period.

This impresses ME!
WJR: Sr Hammer+....78.33....257-0......Olli-Pekka Karjalainen (Finland)....Seinajöki, Finland.........8/ 5/99

[stallion]

This proves absolutely nothing. All events simply aren't created equal, and one-number-fits-all just doesn't cut it. Olympic history is full of teenaged sprinters who did well, but find me all the weight throwers. Some events take time to grow into, period.

Yes, in addition to the host of variables which would render this an exercise in, at best, "educated speculation," add to the other potential causes of aberrations the possibility that some "juniors" are not actually juniors. I assume you're only taking into account males. I would guess the possibility exists for some deviation among the females, and I also would guess that PEDs (assuming they're a factor in some records) might be more prevalent in nonjuniors.